Mark Esper is an insider from Washington who spent his entire career flying under the radar – until he became the second Secretary of Defense of President Donald Trump. A West Point graduate and parachutist, Esper spent 10 years as a regular army officer. And when he left active duty, he went through the revolving doors of think tank jobs, Capitol Hill and Pentagon staff positions, and defense lobbying. It all turned out to be a training camp for his appointment as Secretary of Defense – and a clash with Mr Trump, whom he considered a threat to American democracy. But we begin tonight with the thoughts of the former Minister of Defense on the Russian war in Ukraine.
Nora O’Donnell: Overall, how would you rate the performance of President Biden and his administration on Ukraine?
Mark Esper: It’s mixed. They had an unstable beginning. I would never remove the military version from the table, for example. I don’t understand the reluctance to provide– Ukrainians with MiGs
Nora O’Donnell: Fighters.
Mark Esper: Fighters, that’s right. But … it’s been accepted ever since. I think we are now bringing more supplies, materials and weapons into Ukraine. I think they have done a good job of attracting allies, which is important. You … must act collectively. And you have to give some credit, by the way, to the Congress, which I think – you know, in the few – a few issues that united the Congress, that was, support for Ukraine. And somehow they led the administration. So it is good to see now the Congress and the executive branch – to act together, reasonably coordinated, to help the Ukrainian people.
Tomorrow, May 9, marks an important day in the Russian calendar – the victory in World War II.
Mark Esper: Well, I think the general opinion right now seems to be that by May 9, Putin will try to secure a Donbass that would be– occupying the other provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk, if you will, and declaring them protected.
Nora O’Donnell: Is there any scenario in which President Putin can take over these regions and then simply declare victory?
Mark Esper: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, if I were a gambler today, I would say he would do that. He will at least secure the entire Donbass, declare that he has liberated the Russian-speaking peoples in the region, and declare victory. And this will turn into another frozen conflict.
Mark Esper
Mark Esper’s tenure as Secretary of Defense began when he was confirmed by an overwhelming majority in the Senate, 90-8, on July 23, 2019. Two days later, in a telephone conversation with President Zelensky, Mr. Trump asked for a “favor.” while he suspended aid to Ukraine. The summons eventually led to his impeachment.
Nora O’Donnell: You had to keep pushing President Trump to release $ 250 million in aid to Ukraine?
Mark Esper: Yes, that would be dispute after dispute. And I will have to say, “Look, Mr. President, at the end of the day, Congress appropriated. That’s the law. We have to do it. ”
Esper writes in his new memoir, The Holy Oath, that the affair with Ukraine is an early source of tension between him and President Trump. This tension will grow, as he told us when we met him at his alma mater, West Point.
Mark Esper: Because it is important for our country, it is important for the republic, the American people, that they understand what is happening in this very consistent period. The last year of the Trump administration. And let’s talk about the things we prevented. Really bad things. Dangerous things that could lead the country … in a dark direction.
Nora O’Donnell: What terrible things did you prevent?
Mark Esper: At different times – during … certainly the last year of rule, you know, the people in the White House are proposing to take military action against Venezuela. To strike Iran. At one point, someone suggested we block Cuba.
These ideas would happen – it seemed, everyone – every few weeks. Something like that would happen and we would have to pat them.
Nora O’Donnell: Who is “we had to defeat them?”
Mark Esper: Well, mostly me. I had good support from– from General Mark Millie.
Mark Esper and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Millie, led the army for more than a year before heading the Pentagon. to deal with what he calls some of the “crazy” ideas coming from the White House, Esper and Millie devised a system.
Esper with correspondent Nora O’Donnell
Mark Esper: That idea came to me. In fact, Mark Millie and I are discussing this – what we call the “four no”. The four things we had to prevent from happening between then and the election. And one was without strategic retreats, without unnecessary wars, without politics – politicization of the army and without abuse of the army. So as we went through the next five to six months, this became the metric by which we would measure things.
Esper told us that he had reason to worry not only about an unnecessary military conflict with an adversary, but also about one of our closest neighbors and largest trading partners.
Mark Esper: The president has pulled me aside at least a few times and suggests that we may have the US military launch missiles into Mexico …
Nora O’Donnell: Why shoot missiles in Mexico?
Mark Esper: He would tell … to go after the cartels. And we were going to have this private discussion where I would say, “Mr. President, I know, I understand the motive.” Because he was very serious about dealing with drugs in America. I understand that, we all understand, but I had to explain to him, “We – we can’t do this. This would violate international law. It would be terrible for our neighbors to the south. It would be, you know, affecting us in so many ways. Why … why don’t we do it instead? “
Nora O’Donnell: You politely reject the idea. Did President Trump really say, “No one will know it’s us?”
Mark Esper: Yes. Yes. I … I … he … he said that. And I … I just thought it was fantastic, didn’t I? Because, of course, it will be us. I was reluctant to tell this story. Because I think … I … I thought people wouldn’t believe that. That they’ll think I’m just making it up, and people in Trump’s orbit will challenge it. And then I had dinner – after the 2020 elections with a fellow member of the Cabinet. And … and he said to me, he says, “You know, do you remember that time when President Trump offered you to fire … m … missiles in Mexico?” And I said to him, “Did you … hear that?” He says, “Oh, yes. I couldn’t believe it. And I couldn’t believe how well you did and dissuaded him from that. ”And at that moment, I knew I had to write the story. Because there is at least one witness who can confirm that this really happened.
Asked if Esper’s story about Mexico was true, Donald Trump said in a 60-minute statement “no comment.”
Esper says that to verify the facts in his book, he sent the entire – or parts of – his manuscript to more than two dozen current and former four-star officers, senior Pentagon civilians and cabinet members. They talked for 60 minutes with six of them, who said that what they had read was correct.
The late spring of 2020 was not an external crisis, but the assassination of George Floyd in Minneapolis, which Esper called a turning point in his time as defense minister. On the night of May 31 in Washington, racial justice protests were overshadowed by insurgents who set fire to parts of Washington and, according to Esper, angered President Trump. At a meeting the next morning, Esper told us, the commander-in-chief was on the verge of ordering 10,000 active-duty servicemen to take to the streets of the capital.
Nora O’Donnell: What was the most disturbing thing the president said during the June 1 meeting?
Mark Esper: The president is dealing with … in the room. He uses a lot, you know … obscene words. You know, “You … you’re all devilish losers,” right? And then he tells Vice President Mike Pence. He … he uses the same language and looks at Pence.
Nora O’Donnell: He called Mike Pence …
Mark Esper: X– he’s …
Nora O’Donnell: –loser?
Mark Esper: –he didn’t– he didn’t call him directly, but he looked at him when he said it. And that really caught my attention, and I thought we were somewhere else now. It will finally issue a direct order to deploy paratroopers on the streets of Washington, DC. And I think with weapons and bayonets. That would be awful.
Nora O’Donnell: What specifically did he suggest the US military do with these protesters?
Mark Esper: He says, “Can’t you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something.” And he suggests that we should do this, bring in troops and shoot the protesters.
Nora O’Donnell: The commander-in-chief suggested that the US military shoot at the protesters? American protesters.
Mark Esper: Yes, on the streets …
Nora O’Donnell: American protesters.
Mark Esper: – from the capital of our country. This is true. shocking.
Nora O’Donnell: We have seen in other countries how the government uses its army to shoot at protesters.
Mark Esper: That’s right.
Nora O’Donnell: What kind of governments are these?
Mark Esper: Oh, these are banana republics, right? Or – authoritarian regimes. We all remember Tiananmen Square, right in China
As for whether he offered to shoot protesters, former President Trump said in a statement: “This is a complete lie and 10 witnesses can support it. Mark Esper was weak and completely ineffective, so I had to lead the army. “
Esper told us he wanted to avoid the president invoking the Uprising Act, which would allow Mr Trump to deploy troops to active duty. Instead, Esper …
Add Comment