Aides said the hearing would include new materials and documents on Pence’s Jan. 6 movement and what he did when the Senate hall was forced to evacuate after insurgents violated the U.S. Capitol.
The hearing will focus on the theory of Trump’s lawyer John Eastman that Pence had the power to overturn the election results when Congress confirmed Joe Biden’s victory on January 6, 2021. This was a theory that was rejected by Trump’s own lawyers in White home, but Trump and his allies embraced him, pressuring Pence to help him undermine the election in the weeks before Jan. 6. On January 6, the commission received numerous emails from Eastman about his efforts to cancel the election, which could shed new light on Trump’s lawyer by January 6. Eastman tried to block the Chamber’s access to many of his emails, claiming they were protected as confidential communication between a lawyer and a client, but a judge repeatedly agreed with him and ordered them handed over. Two witnesses will testify at Thursday’s hearing that advised Pence he had no power to undermine the election, former Pence lawyer Greg Jacob and retired Republic Judge J.W. Michael Lutig. The focus on both Eastman’s and Trump’s efforts to cancel the election and the ensuing violence on Jan. 6 echoes a theme the commission highlighted in its first two hearings in June: that Trump’s scheme to halt his election loss led to the Capitol attack .
Pence will be in focus, but not there
One person who will be noticeably absent on Thursday is the former vice president himself.
Earlier this year, the chairman of the commission, Democratic Representative Benny Thompson of Mississippi, suggested that the commission seek evidence from Pence. However, the prospect of Pence appearing before the committee, especially in public, has always been seen as a distant possibility, to say the least.
But while the commission says Trump has been urging his vice president to unilaterally cancel the Jan. 6 election, Pence’s absence will no doubt be felt.
Asked on Wednesday whether the commission was still interested in hearing Pence himself, commission officials objected, telling reporters that the investigation was ongoing and therefore could not provide details of any engagement with a specific witness.
“Nothing new to share on the issue, except that we are still looking for facts and if there is more to share, we will share it in the future,” said one of the aides.
The fact that two of Pence’s former advisers are due to appear on Thursday, and his former chief of staff Mark Short testified in camera behind closed doors, shows that Pence did not try to actively block people around him from sharing information with the commission. instead of him .
Pence is expected to travel to Ohio on Thursday for an energy roundtable.
Judge and lawyer
The two witnesses who appeared on Thursday, Jacob and Lutig, played a key role in helping Pence stand up to Trump’s pressure campaign. Both can talk about how Trump and his allies were warned that his plan for Pence to postpone the Jan. 6 election was illegal.
Jacob was Pence’s lawyer and helped the vice president’s team express that the Constitution did not give Pence more than ceremonial power when Congress confirmed Biden’s victory. Lutig helped secure Pence’s public cover by posting a topic on Twitter at the urging of Pence’s team to explain why Pence could not do what Trump wanted. Interestingly, Eastman is a former Lutig official.
Pence cited Lutig’s statement in a letter published on January 6, explaining why he would not suspend certification of the election.
Jacob also played a role behind the scenes on January 6 as he was evacuated from the Senate with Pence, exchanging heated emails about what was happening, which was revealed in court documents.
“Thanks to your nonsense, we are now under siege,” Jacob wrote.
Eastman replied, “The siege is because YOU and your boss did not do what was necessary to allow it to be broadcast in public so that the American people could see what happened.”
Short, Pence’s former chief aide, spoke to the commission in a statement, and commission officials said they expect to use parts of his interview during Thursday’s hearing. But there are no indications that the commission will call him to testify during the public hearings.
It is no different from how the commission presented the testimony of former Attorney General William Barr during Monday’s hearing, but did not make him appear in public.
“Great Effective Criminal Defense Attorney”
The commission reviewed its hearing on Thursday, releasing a video of its testimony against Hershman.
In the video, Hershman outlines how he warned Eastman to abandon his plans to file complaints in Georgia based on the results of the January 6, 2021 election.
“He started asking me about something related to Georgia and keeping something potential to appeal,” Hershman said in the video. “And I told him, ‘Are you crazy from here?’ Because I want to hear only two words that come out of your mouth from now on: an orderly transition. I said, “I don’t want to hear any other effective words coming out of your mouth, no matter what, other than an ‘arranged transition.’ Repeat these words to me. “
He then went on to warn Eastman that his actions could potentially be illegal.
“Finally, he said, ‘An orderly transition.’ I said, “Okay, John. Now I’m going to give you the best free legal advice you’ve ever received in your life: Get a great criminal defense attorney. You’re going to need him.” And I hung up on him. “
The video probably foreshadows what will be the main topic of Thursday’s hearing, as the commission plans to highlight how Trump continued to accept Eastman’s plan to cancel the election despite his top lawyers insisting it was not good legal advice.
And in trying to carry out that plan, Trump and Eastman are more likely to have committed a crime, according to Hershman and a federal judge in California, who issued an opinion on the subject in a related case earlier this year.
The lawyer will ask questions on Thursday
The format of Thursday’s hearing will have a new twist, according to commission officials: commission adviser John Wood will do some of the questioning of witnesses.
The inclusion of a staff lawyer goes back to the House of Representatives’ impeachment hearings in 2019, when staff lawyers conducted lengthy interviews with witnesses before more traditional five-minute rounds were used for members of the House.
The elected committee has limited who has spoken at the hearings so far, with one member focused on chairing each session. Democratic MP Pete Aguilar will have that task in California on Thursday.
The commission postponed its scheduled hearing Wednesday, which was due to focus on the justice ministry. She will now hold two hearings next week and is likely to come next week, although the committee has not yet announced specific hours or topics for them.
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