The Justice Department should not avoid prosecuting Donald Trump in connection with the Jan. 6 Capitol attack if a prosecution is warranted, Congresswoman Liz Cheney said in an interview with ABC News’ “This Week” co-anchor Jonathan Carl.
While indicting the former president — who could challenge President Joe Biden in 2024 — would be unprecedented and “difficult” for the country, not doing so would support “a much more serious constitutional threat,” Cheney said in Wednesday in an interview about the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library that aired Sunday on “This Week.”
“Are you worried about what this means for the country, for [see] ex-president hunted? A former president who was a likely candidate; who can actually run for president against Biden?” Carl Cheney asked.
“I think it’s a much more serious constitutional threat if a president can engage in these kinds of activities and the majority of the president’s party looks the other way; or we as a country decide that we’re not really going to take our constitutional obligations seriously,” Cheney said. “I think this is a much, much more serious threat.
“I really believe that we have to make these decisions, as difficult as it is, separate from politics. We really have to think about them in terms of: What does this mean for the country?” she said.
“Absolutely confident” in Hutchinson’s testimony
The Wyoming Republican told Karl she was “absolutely confident” in Cassidy Hutchinson’s stunning testimony last week during a surprise Jan. 6 hearing by the House committee that Cheney serves as vice chairman.
“She’s an incredibly brave young woman,” Chaney said of Hutchinson.
On Tuesday, a former aide to Trump’s White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, testified that she was told that Trump had been verbally aggressive with Secret Service agents and lunged at the wheel of his vehicle after learning that he will not go to the Capitol after his January 6, 2021 rally.
Hutchinson said Tony Ornato, a Secret Service agent and Trump’s deputy chief of staff, told her that shortly after the incident that day. Hutchinson’s account drew considerable attention and pushback from Trump.
“What Ms. Hutchinson testified to was a conversation that she had with Mr. Ornato and that Mr. Engel [a Secret Service agent] was present where they described what happened in the limo,” Cheney said.
Cassidy Hutchinson, former top aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, testifies during the sixth House impeachment hearing on Jan. 6, June 28, 2022.
Brandon Bell/Getty Images
“Do you have any evidence other than Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to corroborate what she said happened in that presidential motorcade?” Carl Cheney asked.
“The committee has considerable evidence on a whole range of issues, including the president’s intense anger,” Cheney replied.
“I think you will continue to see in the coming days and weeks additional details about the president’s activities and behavior that day,” Cheney added.
In a statement to ABC News, the Secret Service said the agents were ready to testify under oath before the panel. A source close to the Secret Service did not dispute with ABC News that Trump was angry with the agents in the car, but said he did not reach for the steering wheel or lunge at Robert Engel, the lead agent of his detail.
Hutchinson also claimed Trump knew his supporters were armed on Jan. 6 before the Capitol march.
On Tuesday, Trump sought to dismiss and downplay Hutchinson’s testimony, posting on social media that “I hardly know who this person is…except I’ve heard a lot of negative things about her (total fake and ‘leaker’).”
“She’s bad news!” he added.
Speaking to Carl, Cheney said the House committee “is not going to stand by and watch it [Hutchinson’s] character to be killed by anonymous sources and by people claiming executive privileges. And so we look forward to further affidavits on a whole range of issues.”
A criminal case for tampering with witnesses?
Cheney said during last week’s hearing that some witnesses told investigators that Trump associates tried to influence their testimony before the grand jury. Hutchinson was among those receiving messages to protect the former president, sources later told ABC News.
“Witness tampering is a crime. Are you filing a criminal case with the DOJ for this?” Carl asked.
“We’ll make a decision as a committee on that,” Cheney replied.
“Do you have any doubt that [Trump] broke the law and that he’s guilty of criminal wrongdoing?” Carl Cheney asked. (Trump insists he’s done nothing wrong.) “That’s a decision we’ll make together as a committee,” Cheney said, referring to any potential criminal conduct to the Ministry of Justice.
“There is no doubt that he was involved in serious crimes and offences. I think there is no doubt that this is the most serious betrayal of his oath of office by any president in the nation’s history. This is the most dangerous behavior by any president in the history of the nation,” she said.
“Could there be a criminal referral?” Carl asked.
“Yes,” Cheney said, adding that the Justice Department “doesn’t have to wait” for the commission to make a referral and that the commission can issue “more than one criminal referral.”
Congresswoman Liz Cheney, vice chair of the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol uprising, delivers her “Time to Choose” speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum, June 29, 2022, in Simi Valley, California.
Mark J. Terrill/AP, FILE
Harming Trump is ‘not the purpose’ of the hearings
Cheney has emerged as perhaps the loudest and most prominent anti-Trump voice in his party, drawing praise from Democrats and derision from many conservatives. Last year, she told ABC News that she would “do everything in my power to make sure ‘Trump’ never gets anywhere near the Oval Office again.”
“Did these hearings bring you any closer to that goal — making him a toxic and unviable candidate?” Karl asked in the new interview.
“That’s not the purpose of the hearings,” she said.
“It is extremely important that the country make sure that he is never near the Oval Office again,” Cheney continued.
“The purpose of the hearings is to make sure the American people understand what happened; to help inform legislation, legislative changes that we may need to make,” she said. “I think it’s also the case that there’s not a single thing I’ve learned since we’ve been involved in this investigation that makes me any less worried.”
“There’s no doubt about it: A man as dangerous as Donald Trump can absolutely never be anywhere near the Oval Office again,” Cheney said.
With primaries looming, Cheney doesn’t ‘intend to lose’
Cheney was one of 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump in 2021 for inciting riots in the Capitol. Of that group, four are not running for re-election, and Congressman Tom Rice of South Carolina was defeated in his May primary by a Trump-backed opponent.
Cheney will face Trump-backed candidate Harriet Hageman in early August. The former president won a larger share of the vote in Wyoming in 2020 than in any other state.
“You recently said that the country is now in a battle: We must win against the former president who is trying to destroy our constitutional republic. What does it mean for this fight if you lose the GOP primary in Wyoming?” Carl Cheney asked.
“Well, I have no intention of losing the GOP primary in Wyoming,” Cheney said.
“How important is winning to this bigger fight?” Carl asked.
“I think it’s important because I’m going to be the best representative that the people of Wyoming can have,” Cheney said.
“The single most important thing is to protect the nation from Donald Trump. And I think that matters to us as Americans more than anything else, and that’s why my work on the committee is so important,” she said.
“It’s so important to not just erase that past and say, ‘Okay, well, it’s in the past,’ but it informs whether this kind of toxin of Trump’s belief that he can put himself above the Constitution and put himself above the law — – whether we successfully defeat this or not. And I think it’s very important that people know the truth. And that there are consequences,” Cheney said.
Cheney thinks the GOP “cannot survive” a Trump run in 2024
Cheney said the Republican Party “will not survive” if the former president runs for the White House again and wins the 2024 GOP nomination.
“I think he cannot be nominated by the party. And I don’t think the party would survive that,” Cheney said. “I believe in the party and I believe in what the party can be and what the party can stand for. And I’m not ready to give that up.”
“Those of us who believe in Republican principles and ideals have a responsibility to try to bring the party back to what it can be and reject and reject so much of the toxin and vitriol,” she added.
“I think it’s also important to remember that millions of people, millions of Republicans were betrayed by Donald Trump. And that’s a really painful thing for people to recognize and admit,” she said.
“But it absolutely is, and they’ve been betrayed by him, by the ‘big lie’ — referring to Trump’s continued baseless claims of election fraud — “and by what he continues to do and say to tear our country apart and our party, and I think we should reject that,” Cheney said.
She said she had not “made up her mind” about running for president in 2024.
“Obviously I’m very focused on my re-election. I’m very focused on the committee on January 6,” she said, with public hearings expected to resume later this month. “I am very focused on my duties to do the job I have now. And I’ll decide on ’24’ later.”
“But I think about it less in terms of a decision to run for office and more in terms of, as an American — and as someone who is now in a position of public trust — how do I make sure that I’m doing everything I can to do the right thing, to do what I know is…
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