After interviewing more than 1,000 witnesses and gathering more than 140,000 documents, a House of Representatives committee investigating the Capitol attack on January 6, 2021, has finally revealed its findings to the public.
So far, the commission has held three televised hearings: a strictly curated prime-time session that visualizes the overall conclusions, and two extensive daily sessions that delve deeper into the findings of the investigation and their implications for American democracy.
We learned about Donald J.’s determination. Trump has continued with his plan to overturn the results of the 2020 election, although at the time his own advisers told him it was illegal and that there was no evidence of widespread fraud. We also heard new details about the torturous day of Mike Pence, who was hiding from the rebels, and saw previously unpublished footage from the point of view of police officers struggling to hold back the crowd, among other revelations.
To try to make sense of all this, I spoke to Times reporter Maggie Haberman, who covered January 6 and its aftermath and is finishing her upcoming book on Mr. Trump. Our conversation was slightly edited for length and clarity:
You report in detail on the events surrounding the Capitol riot, including recent information about fears among Pence’s aides before Jan. 6 about his safety. Did anything surprise you during these hearings or did it change the way you think about that day or the months ahead?
The biggest surprise was that John Eastman, a lawyer who advised Trump on his strategy to overturn the 2020 election results, sent an email saying he was interested in a presidential pardon.
What was striking was that Eastman apparently asked for it after two White House aides, Trump adviser Eric Hershman and Pence adviser Greg Jacob, warned him that he was offering things in violation of the law. So I think the hearings have adjusted the aperture for what we can expect about the possible crime involved here.
What do you read about how a former president has reacted to the hearings so far?
My understanding from many people is that he was unhappy watching them. He is particularly disappointed that videos of his family – Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner – are being used against him.
Is Trump afraid of a possible federal accusation?
He has always feared a possible charge long before he became president, according to many who know him. Whether he does it specifically here is an open question. Some of his aides are adamant that he does not believe that these hearings will lead to anything that touches him.
From the outside, the hearings appear to be going smoothly for the committee on January 6th. What kind of internal shocks, if any, were inside the panel on the eve of this moment? Are there important disagreements among members or their assistants about how to proceed?
Our colleague Luke Broadwater has made more reports on this, but the committee has not always agreed on where the key areas of focus should be. One of the areas we saw coming into play was what to do with Ginny Thomas, the wife of Judge Clarence Thomas.
The topics of the hearings of the committee of the House of Representatives on January 6
There was also frustration among some members and their staff about information leaks, as is often the case with committees or institutions.
What is your assessment of the role of Liz Cheney’s representative in the committee and what do you understand that drives her? She often appears to be one of the more aggressive members of the group, although she is one of only two Republicans in it.
She is obviously one of the leaders and co-chair, so this should come as no surprise. But it was important to them because it is very difficult to reject it as a political opponent.
In addition to her Republican integrity – she is the daughter of Dick Cheney, far from a liberal organization – she was actually a supporter of Trump until he began trying to undermine vocals in the 2020 race on election day. Trump’s allies have cited this as evidence of hypocrisy, but the reality is that the line has been crossed for her.
But people may have more than one motivation, and I think she’s also deeply concerned about how Representative Kevin McCarthy – who referred her to her and removed her from her Republican leadership in the House of Representatives – gave Trump the opportunity to start after the riot.
How, as a matter of political calculation, would you evaluate McCarthy’s decision to reject the commission and allow President Nancy Pelosi to dictate its form and scope? Are Republicans sorry for anything?
Republicans blame Pelosi for not allowing McCarthy to appoint the members she objected to. But in private, some Republicans are angry with him, believing he retired too soon and could have contributed to everything if he had agreed on names.
What about the electoral impact of these hearings? To what extent do they matter for the interim mandates in 2022 or the presidential race in 2024?
Blake, I think people’s lives are so bleak from an economic standpoint right now, with the exception of the super-rich, that anyone affected by these hearings may have already made up their minds.
Is any of this a good set of facts about Trump? Absolutely not. But in terms of deadlines, I think it’s too early to tell.
This is different from the question of whether it makes it difficult for Republicans to look away from Trump’s behavior, which the hearings are definitely achieving.
It’s also very difficult to look at the totality of the evidence so far – and I don’t expect it to improve for Trump – and see how someone takes it and says, “It wasn’t that bad.” It is the chief of staff and chief adviser to former vice presidents Mark Short and Greg Jacob who are putting forward these arguments. It’s not Nancy Pelosi.
I’ve seen it used by people fighting Trump in the 2024 primary. But we’re far from that right now.
What to read (and watch) tonight
viewfinder
A unique point of view
On Politics regularly presents the work of photographers to the Times. Here’s what Kenny Holston told us about the image above:
As a photojournalist, I face many challenges that range from task to task. One common difficulty when working in the White House is getting into a storytelling position with a fresh look at a common phenomenon.
The White House press is often limited to small, divided areas of events involving the president or vice president. There is very little freedom to find creative points.
The image above came from the East Room when President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris entered for the signing ceremony. As the press pool is crowded in the usual rope area, I decided to settle in front of my colleagues in another area designated for the press.
For these types of ceremonies, this area serves as a bit of a visual disadvantage. But I knew that it might be possible to create a kind of image that is not often seen and that other photographers probably wouldn’t have. So I threw the dice and managed to capture the image above.
Thanks for reading.
– Blake
Is there anything you think we are missing? Something you want to see more? We look forward to hearing from you. Email us at onpolitics@nytimes.com.
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